Even if I was to say I don’t consider scientology a religion from my point of view, I can’t deny that there are people who really take it seriously as much as any Christian, Muslim, or Jewish person takes their faith seriously. Even if they hold intolerance toward me because I don’t agree with their principles. I could NOT say I would NOT respect their beliefs.
Certainly we need to respect their right to believe as they wish, but for what purpose do we need to respect their actual beliefs? If Scientologists want to believe in the story of Xenu, or if the Christians want to believe in the story of Noah, certainly that’s their right, but why shouldn’t I feel free to laugh at both? If someone believes their religion justifies abortion clinic bombings, slavery, or denying basic human rights to gays (or heretics), should I respect that too?
That’s the point I was trying to make. I’m not saying it’s not OK to have a little fun poking at religion. Little sarcasm here and there, sure. I laugh at religious jokes like most people would. I was just pointing out there is a difference between that and just complete ignorance and intolerance toward understanding someone’s beliefs in a more serious setting I suppose. I was kind of taken back at Kevin’s comment. I couldn’t see how he would not be more respectful to someone close to him if ever such a friend or family member took up the belief in Scientology. Why it would make a profound difference in his opinion of that person. Does it really matter?
[quote author=“Auron”]See there’s a difference between scientology and other things. Scientology is dangerous, and based on things Jordan showed me today, just plain scary. They aren’t preaching peace and love like most, but make people pay money for “auditsâ€, make people avoid psychiatrists and medications (even when people need either very much). Christianity, Islam, etc. are only dangerous when people take it to an extreme. Scientology IS dangerous
I really do not know enough about Scientology to comment on how scary or on the other hand, maybe just how plain silly it is. Or maybe as I said, what the media or Christian right wing makes it out to be. Just the strange little facts about L. Ron Hubbard, the whole belief in Xenu thing, and redistribution of large sums of money. Sure almost anything about taking large sums of money for vested interests is corruption. But otherwise, I don’t really see it as anything other than another cult of devout followers who obviously don’t share the same beliefs as I do. Believe what you want to believe, just as long as they don’t try to force it on anyone is all I say. If a person decides for themselves, then so be it.
I really do not know enough about Scientology to comment on how scary or on the other hand, maybe just how plain silly it is. Or maybe as I said, what the media or Christian right wing makes it out to be. Just the strange little facts about L. Ron Hubbard, the whole belief in Xenu thing, and redistribution of large sums of money. Sure almost anything about taking large sums of money for vested interests is corruption. But otherwise, I don’t really see it as anything other than another cult of devout followers who obviously don’t share the same beliefs as I do. Believe what you want to believe, just as long as they don’t try to force it on anyone is all I say. If a person decides for themselves, then so be it.
The thing is, the media almost never picks up on stories about Scientology, especially the scary stuff. The Christian right wing is too busy worrying about abortion and gay marriage to say anything about Scientology.
Scientology might appear silly on the surface with Xenu and Tom Cruise jumping on couches, but underneath the front they put on and behind all the hollywood star power is the largest criminal organization ever to exist on Earth. This is a video about the town of Clearwater, FL. Scientology has slowly taken over the entire town. It’s kind of a long video, but it’s really interesting if you have the time to watch the entire thing. This ytmnd (yes, a ytmnd, I know) has a lot of great information on some of the more gruesome things that have occurred at the hands of Scientology, but they’re pretty extreme examples. Still, the financial ruin that Scientology has put upon so many of its members is staggering.
Germany, with one of the few governments in the world with the balls to stand up against the Scientologist legal machine, refuses to recognize Scientology as a religion. They place Scientology on the same level as Islamic extremism and organized crime, issuing leaflets warning of the dangers of such organizations.
Why it would make a profound difference in his opinion of that person. Does it really matter?
I suppose for the same reasons that Wes alluded to: what someone believes reveals a lot about them, be it a belief in a wacky religion, or a belief in the inherent superiority of a certain skin color or inferiority of a certain ethnicity. There’s a lot of weight assigned to religious beliefs, and I think people have a hard time abstracting away from it. That’s why I think the idea of the flying spaghetti monster is brilliant: it gives a way for the conversations to be recontextualized. With that in mind, if someone told me in earnest that they had found faith, and that it was a belief in the FSM, then I would judge them to be an idiot, with good reason. The jump from FSM to Xenu is not a big one.
I suppose saying you hate them might be extreme, but it depends on the nature of their belief. If you think a belief system is genuinely harmful or dangerous, then yes, perhaps it is OK to hate them. I’d say I have some level of hate towards anyone that tries to impose their views about things like gender inequality or censorship on me or the nation as a whole. If I lived in an extreme Muslim part of the mideast, particularly if I was a woman, I think that would be enough to justify hating any Muslim man.
The scientologist attitudes about psychiatry and medicine seem to fall into the harmful and dangerous category, and even more so when combined with the absolute certainty of the truth of their knowledge, and their mission to interfere with others. I’ve not had direct contact with scientologists, nor have I researched them, so I don’t have a strong opinion, but I could certainly understand hating them if your life was somehow negatively effected by them.
/edit: one other thought: religion is something you choose. Forming opinions about someone based on their choices is reasonable, I think.
I put Scientology in the same league as the Illinois Nazis - a bit of a joke, but deep down, they are NOT nice people.
The problem is, a lot of people do this. They’re not a joke, they’re truly and honestly a dangerous organization. People treat them like a joke, and that only makes them more dangerous.
I put Scientology in the same league as the Illinois Nazis - a bit of a joke, but deep down, they are NOT nice people.
The problem is, a lot of people do this. They’re not a joke, they’re truly and honestly a dangerous organization. People treat them like a joke, and that only makes them more dangerous.
But my point of playing devil’s advocate is trying to say that there are probably a decent many “good” scientologists out there. Good people with a good sense of morals. You might say they’re just deluted from the truth, but nowadays it’s hard to tell sometimes who isn’t, and I certainly don’t rule myself out. I don’t know everything either. But certainly any organization whether it be the Church of Scientology to the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to the U.S. Government to Dunkin’ Donuts breeds some amount of corruption, commits terrible crimes against humanity (a certain U.S. president comes to mind) in the eyes of someone else. (Dunkin’ Donuts makes people fat with their delicious eclairs, it’s enough to warrant a crime right? ) One could argue many, many more throughout all of history have done terrible acts in the name of Christianity than those few equally terrible persons have done in the brief time for which Scientology has existed.
So no amount of convincing or videos is going to phase me from believing that there are good people out there in any faith or religion who believe what they are doing is right. Likewise under normal circumstances they treat other people with the same common human decency as any other person of a different faith or religion. Scenario: You lost your wallet, a person finds it and arranges to return it. They drop it off to you, you thank them, and they leave with a sense of virtue believing they did the right thing. Unbeknownst to you, that person was a scientologist (or a Muslim or a gay person what have you). Would you think that person was the embodiment of everything evil that those videos you linked depicted? Perhaps he/she was truly evil, maybe they did commit a murder, but from your perspective having your wallet returned in the same condition from whence you lost it, you wouldn’t think so. That person is probably just another law-abiding, tax-paying citizen.
So maybe the Church of Scientology is evil. I would tend to agree also. I’m a Christian, but have you looked at some of things our current Pope has done? I wouldn’t exactly call him a Gandhi or a Mother Teresa either. (Personally, I think some policies our current church pastor has have alienated certain persons in our congregation, but that’s just my opinion.) I wouldn’t label all individuals who practice the faith as evil people. Just like most of the world looks at America, and I’ve heard it from these forums as well. “Generally Americans are great people, it’s just their elected leaders who suck”.
I was hitchhiking once, but couldn’t get a lift, so I said “God, please, please make the next car stop and pick me up”. And the next car actually stops! I open the door and a sweet little old lady is hiding behind the wheel. “Are you heading into town?” she asks me. I answer “Yes, yes I am!” while thanking the lord in my grateful head. “Well I’m not!” says the tiny old human and drives away.
) One could argue many, many more throughout all of history have done terrible acts in the name of Christianity than those few equally terrible persons have done in the brief time for which Scientology has existed.
