[quote author=“ConEEE”]Just to bring a serious slant on this thread; as a christian since birth and a student studying theology, I’ve been getting very angry at the press’ coverage of this new pope.
I don’t understand how they can get their hopes up that an establishment which is 2000+ years old, with a foundation in absolutist moral theories (Natural Law - Aquinas), will suddenly change their entire way of life in one foul swoop in response to relativistic and quite frankly ignorant global pressure.
The catholic church is meant to be an unchanging and stable block across the world no matter what the issue or what the stakes. It offers a choice in life based on millennia of thought from theologians and the relativistic threat is something it cannot bow to, purely for its own survival. This choice has to remain the same, otherwise the whole catholic ethos will be swept away like every other relative theory.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a bible belt christian, I just get pissed off at the fucking idiotic reporting surrounding issues about the Vatican and the christian faith. Maybe I’ve been watching a little too much ITV lately (retarded TV station).
You pretty much nailed it on the head, here. Dissent and views considered outside of the mainstream-patriarchical-hierarchical view within the “catholic” (trans. “truth”) church has been fairly well sidelined since the Council of Nicea in AD 325. Many historians of theologies note that it was at this meeting that:
1. Thomas was dropped from the canon, because the followers of the Gospel of Thomas (arguably the most “christian” of the gospels, preaching equality, the spark of god in everyone, man or woman, and the path to salvation being internal not external) lost a major political battle to the followers of John (who had the ear of the powerful leaders in Constantinople).
2. That all references to the gospel of Luke being written by a wealthy Jewish woman were erased (note that Luke mentions women 59 times, while the nearest other canon gospel mentions women 11 times). Plus Luke has an excellent description of “quickening,” the change in position experienced pre-labour that only a woman would know about.
3. The separation of the eastern teaching of Jesus were removed from the gospels thereby starting the rift between the eastern orthodoxy and the western version of the church.
4. All references to women leading service and theology within the church were also actively erased (except catholics still have that odd relationship with [mother] Mary)
This is an institution that is afraid of change (as many are) because it will destroy what it has created. The main trouble with Ratzinger (Benedict XVI if you must) is that he is uninterested in even listening to or accepting views outside his own (anyone who defines their morality/ethos as right for everyone is seriously bigoted) as being as valid as his.
Furthermore, Ratzinger has stated that it is the church, and only the church, and not a catholic person’s conscience that now is the final arbitrator of all things (a reversal of the churches doctrine that states one’s conscience can be used as a final guide to make a moral decision) moral.
But as another poster mentioned, this is the problem with all organized religions, isn’t it.
Also, to reiterate ...
[quote author=“ConEEE”]The catholic church is meant to be an unchanging and stable block across the world no matter what the issue or what the stakes.
Not historically, no. It has, for most of the catholic churches modern history, always allowed a practicing catholic to make an important decision based on their conscience as the final arbitrator, not the imposed church doctrine. That being said, the hierarchy who run the church often suggested that this might lead to a “sin” and punishment but it recognized a person’s conscience as a guiding life force as it was touched by the spirit of god.
Then again, “sin” requires freewill (a voluntary choice to do something) which also then must mean even god can not know everything because if god knows the outcome/choice of any decision you make a priori then your choice was predetermined at the moment of gods creation and you had no freewill to choose any other choice. This means that god is not omnipotent, god doesn’t exist in the catholic churches sense, or god simply doesn’t exist. :?
Also, the catholic church does frequently change it’s “absolute” position on issues it is unable to support any longer ... e.g., evolution, sun vs. earth-centric solar system, etc.
Change is inevitable and it will come even to the church. It may take 500 more years, but it will happen.
The whole god-freewill-determinism thing is also a remarkable read, for those interested. In the end the Vatican will have to change it’s views on many things during the course of it’s future, it’s the when and where that are the unknowns.
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